Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15

Nov 15 How to fix paladin dps Just make holy wrath & exorcism work on all types of enemy but not affect player characters. It's an easy fix that will make pally dps better in pve but stay the same as they were in vanilla in pvp. Put this thing into a deep ret talent so it will require people to spec deep in ret to be able to dps. A good spot is add it with two-hand weapon specialization making it so that by putting talents into it all hostile aside from players and undeads(since they are already affected by the default version) to be affected by the dmg and effects of the spells effectiveness by 33%/66%/100%. I doubt they would even do this so im just throwing out ideas since too many of you dont actually read the forum and only read the OP here you go to explain a bit of my reasoning because this change wont make ret stronger than pure dps; clearly most of you people didnt play vanilla nor know anything about naxx. ...Toushin260 Nov 15
Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
Escort quests can take awhile to do.  I have thoroughly tested all the escort quests in the game for time/xp.  Most are worth doing, but as long as you are able to actually do them without failing.  Most require you to pay special attention to the escortee as most are fragile and will die easily, so do your best to keep mobs off of the escortee during escort quests.  The longest one in the game is the Tanaris chicken escort.  The chicken escorts are only worth doing if you were able to do all 3 of them, as if you do, you will be able to turn in an additional easy quick XP turn in quest at BB, which makes them worth it.

Long-expected World of Warcraft Classic is confirmed to come in summer 2019. WOW Classic major content will be released in 6 phases, and you could learn the schedule and some information on character creation below. When is WOW Classic release date? World of Warcraft Classic is planned to release this summer on August 27, 2019. This will be a global release, and you could learn the times for each region on the...
Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15
If you come to G2G.com by google "buy gold wow" or “wow gold sell" or "buy wow gold offgamers" or "how to make money playing mmo games" or "Return to Karazhan" or "the Armies of Legionfall" or "world of warcraft usa price gaming" or "trust webs selling gold mmo games" or "Broken Shore" or "Cathedral of Eternal Night" or "wow gold canada" or "buy world of warcraft classic gold" or "wow classic gold" or "cheap wow classic gold" or "buy classic wow gold" or "vanilla wow gold" or "cheap vanilla wow gold", then you are at the right place for the cheapest wow gold! 

For players who plan to play with others, we recommend these as the Best Duo Leveling Classes. These rankings take into account the synergy between classes and how fast they can level from 1-60 together. For example, having a healer to pair with the Warrior makes for a strong combo since you can now tank mobs more effectively, while the Priest DoTs (Damage Over Time) mobs.
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24 Nov 15
WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:
If you come to G2G.com by google "buy gold wow" or “wow gold sell" or "buy wow gold offgamers" or "how to make money playing mmo games" or "Return to Karazhan" or "the Armies of Legionfall" or "world of warcraft usa price gaming" or "trust webs selling gold mmo games" or "Broken Shore" or "Cathedral of Eternal Night" or "wow gold canada" or "buy world of warcraft classic gold" or "wow classic gold" or "cheap wow classic gold" or "buy classic wow gold" or "vanilla wow gold" or "cheap vanilla wow gold", then you are at the right place for the cheapest wow gold!
Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
Gold in World of Warcraft Classic is an integral part of the game. In this article, we will discuss the importance/role of gold in vanilla WOW and how you can obtain it easily. Gold was vastly more important in classic; it gradually became less relevant/powerful as time went on in the current version of the game. It is very tedious (but not difficult) to gain gold in vanilla, which is why many people choose to purchase gold.
Some players choose to take a slightly alternative approach to their gold farming. This approach can take an extensive amount of time and dedication. Many people choose to train a ton of alts, solely for the purpose of making money and multi-tasking. In World of Warcraft Classic, professions are usually paired together. For example, if you’re training alchemy, you will need herbs to create consumables (e.g. flasks) that are used for raiding. An intelligent and observant player could seize this knowledge by creating one alchemy alt and one herbalism alt, swapping items as needed between each other. This fully mitigates the fees by the Auction House, which means your profit is maximised. Another complimentary combination you can use is skinning and tailoring, or cooking and fishing.
Before work began on World of Warcraft: Classic, it was only possible for players to experience the original World of Warcraft by using private servers, which are illegal, often have stability or corruption problems, and generally are very imperfect recreations of the authentic World of Warcraft experience. As much as Blizzard has been aware of the desires of their community, until recently it seemed impossible for them to emulate Classic servers due to the technical hurdles of essentially having to run two massively multiplayer online games side-by-side. A breakthrough was then achieved that made it possible to run Classic servers on the modern architecture of current World of Warcraft servers.
I joined twitch in 2013 with the gamer name of FuriousPaul and I streamed speedruns of the classic Castlevania games from 2013 - 2017. Lately my streams have died down quite a bit due to working on Classic WoW leveling guides every day.  Although I may come on occasionally and play a random game for fun on my Twitch stream.  I talk a lot about WoW speedrunning on my channel, so feel free to follow and hang out to discuss vanilla WoW if you like.  Classic WoW will be my main focus for a long time.  Unfortunately I will have to wait until Classic WoW comes out before I start streaming it.
This section gets a bit more in-depth as a Classic WoW Best Spec For Leveling Up Tier List, where certain classes can a have a really good spec for levelling while the other talent specs are more useful in PVP. Just below this, you can find links to our complete levelling guides for each class, where you can view to find all the information you will need to level up fast. This includes easy to gather weapons, locations you can farm mobs and a complete talent spec build we recommend while going from 1-60 in classic wow.

To gain gold in World of Warcraft, you will primarily be grinding professions which are fantastic for receiving rewards. Mining is an example of a great profession at an early-game level. While Herbalism is actually the best gathering profession, the issue is it uses consumables which can make the profession rather costly, with the investment required.


Nov 15 To all of you who keep talking $$$ Please do explain why a company should waste money to appease you ? I commonly see things like "zomg blikky made 12 bazillion dollars last financial year" "haii why so cheap daddy blizz, please release 500 low pop servers on release , so you can spend the next year wasting money and resources " Grow up. Thanks.Azerothian30 Nov 15
Nov 15 To all of you who keep talking $$$ Please do explain why a company should waste money to appease you ? I commonly see things like "zomg blikky made 12 bazillion dollars last financial year" "haii why so cheap daddy blizz, please release 500 low pop servers on release , so you can spend the next year wasting money and resources " Grow up. Thanks.Azerothian30 Nov 15
Nov 15 Spell Mechanic Questions and Hopes on Items I am not necessarily looking for any discourse that would lead to an answer, but hopefully this would gain enough traction that Blizzard might see it, and offer some insight to intended function come summer 2019. I know there is a current wall of text somewhere regarding questions on almost every item with a spell damage effect and whether or not they will be granted coefficients from character gear grand spell damage. I noticed one in particular that was left out and wanted to reiterate my personal favorites. Shard of the Fallen Star: Originally benefited in part or completely 1:1 ratio from spell damage and was capable of critting. It was nerfed in patch 2.0 which is after classic wow content. In the spirit of keeping things as they were, do you think Blizzard will keep this mechanic or change it to a post nerf state which although is not classic wow maybe seen as a balanced fix. Weapon List: Hand of Ragnaros, Netzerek the Blood Drinker, Corrupted Ashbringer, Shadowstrike - all received 2:1 coefficent originally in classic. I believe they were a little too strong but did not receive any nerf to my knowledge. Do you think these will remain as it was or be changed to satisfy the hopes for balance?Tunnelboy6 Nov 15
Even though the guide was developed with a hunter, the guide can be followed by any class.  Except you have to do your class's quests which aren't a whole lot.  I do have full intention to make my guide friendly with all classes in the future by listing all of their steps as well.  There will be a toggle that allows you to show which class's steps you want to see in the guide.  But this is coming later.
I now have a Patreon Page where you guys can support me while I work on Vanilla WoW leveling guides every day.  I appreciate all of you who support me on there, it means a lot to me right now.  Doing this full time is taxing on my financial situation.  My goal is to make the best Vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web and the donations keep me going at it healthfully.  There is also cool rewards you get in return for donating.  Thanks!
WOW Battle for Nazjatar is a new World PvP event in patch 8.2 Rise of Azshara. Players will try to control five points in Nazjatar during the battle, and earn Nazjatar Battle Commendation for rewards like Essences and Inkscale Deepseeker mount. How to join in WOW Battle for Nazjatar? In special WOW Battle for Nazjatar World PvP event in WOW patch 8.2, each faction tries to control five points in Nazjatar during...
Nov 15 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 and this is perfectly ACCEPTABLE! I actually like the fact that rank 11-14 is extremely hard to get and time consuming. I don't care if it's not about skill, it is very RPG feeling in the fact that, the people who put in the most time and effort spilling the most enemy blood are the ones who get the best rewards. as somebody who will NEVER have a chance of getting those ranks and items because; 1. I do not have time to do it 2. even if I did have time I still wouldn't do it because I mentally could not farm BG's that many hours for 3 months I support the PvP system and think it is great, and acquiring the hugely powerful items is a big reward and a status symbol. in Classic WoW the game is less about YOU and more about your guild. even if you are not the person to get rank 14, or a Legendary item it still feels awesome when your guild mates get them because it will make your guild stronger. LOVE IT!Agonyy107 Nov 15

As you level, you will buy new ranks of spells. If you splurge out on an item upgrade, you will not have enough gold readily available to upgrade to the latest ranks of spells: placing you behind. Moreover, you can buy gear upgrades from the Auction House (AH) or vendors. Furthermore, you may have large investments that need to be paid for professors. You will need to purchase reagents and items such as leather, bolts of cloth, alchemy supplies – unless you have a charitable friend or another high-level alt.

The leveling guides on my site are essentially speed leveling guides.  My leveling guides are the same guides I use myself to speedrun to 60 on new servers to get 60 server first.  I list many occasions where I tell the player to "die on purpose" to go faster.  I tell the player to skip certain quests, because some quests are just not worth the time/XP.  I list tricks and shortcuts to go faster so you can reach level 60 much quicker.  I am still constantly going through them over and over again perfecting the guides to make them faster and easier to follow.  For the most part, the guide can be followed without the need from other player's help, as the whole guide was made from a solo run anyways.  Although I do list quests that can optionally be done if you have a group.
- Gold traders, both buyers and sellers are disliked everywhere, literary on every realm. But have no worries, we have developed very safe practices for trading the gold between ours and your accounts. If you require a specific way of delivery to you (AH, Face2Face, Mail, CoD) we can oblige to your request - just send us an e-mail right after your purchase (include your character name) and we will take care of the rest.
In terms of what the World of Warcraft Classic Best Classes are, Warrior and Priest stand out almost instantly. This is partly due to the fact that Protection Warrior is the only viable Tank Class in WoW Vanilla Patch 1.12. Both the Proc Warrior and Priest are required for Raids and when combined in a PVP setting can be a fierce combo on the battlegrounds.
For players who plan to play with others, we recommend these as the Best Duo Leveling Classes. These rankings take into account the synergy between classes and how fast they can level from 1-60 together. For example, having a healer to pair with the Warrior makes for a strong combo since you can now tank mobs more effectively, while the Priest DoTs (Damage Over Time) mobs.
As you level, you will buy new ranks of spells. If you splurge out on an item upgrade, you will not have enough gold readily available to upgrade to the latest ranks of spells: placing you behind. Moreover, you can buy gear upgrades from the Auction House (AH) or vendors. Furthermore, you may have large investments that need to be paid for professors. You will need to purchase reagents and items such as leather, bolts of cloth, alchemy supplies – unless you have a charitable friend or another high-level alt.
Even though the guide was developed with a hunter, the guide can be followed by any class.  Except you have to do your class's quests which aren't a whole lot.  I do have full intention to make my guide friendly with all classes in the future by listing all of their steps as well.  There will be a toggle that allows you to show which class's steps you want to see in the guide.  But this is coming later.
Nov 15 NO CHANGES. Change it, we won't play. NO server cap above 2500 NO further restrictions towards addon APIs NO sharding NO increased/decreased XP rate NO loot trading NO CRZ NO phasing NO connected realms NO dynamic respawn NO LFD/LFR NO new models NO dual talents NO wow token NO character boost NO shop NO transmog NO achievement NO heirlooms NO arena NO bfa character customization NO esports NO rated BG NO raid re-tuning NO class re-balancing NO personal loot NO flying NO mythic keystone dungeon NO multiple difficulties NO aoe-looting NO Death Knight NO Monk NO Demon Hunter NO blood elf NO draenei NO playable worgen/goblin NO allied races NO pandas No anti-cheat that blocks wall climbing (I want to see mount hyjal) YES to CRBG in the final patch. NO to any other cross realm technology These changes are unacceptable. Sorry I am speaking the truth. BTW. NO "NO CHANGES, BUT ..."Castradys254 Nov 15
This section gets a bit more in-depth as a Classic WoW Best Spec For Leveling Up Tier List, where certain classes can a have a really good spec for levelling while the other talent specs are more useful in PVP. Just below this, you can find links to our complete levelling guides for each class, where you can view to find all the information you will need to level up fast. This includes easy to gather weapons, locations you can farm mobs and a complete talent spec build we recommend while going from 1-60 in classic wow.
Through out the game, the quest log will be capped to 20 many times.  The guide makes use of maximizing the total amount of quests you can accept at once.  Because of this it is important to follow the guide exactly and only accept quests if the guide tells you to so you won't run into issues not being able to accept a quest.  If you do accept a quest that is not listed in the guide, write it down because you may need to abandon it in order to keep following the guide if your quest log is full.

Nov 15 Classic is too easy for 2019 playerbase I'm not big on gameplay changes, really I'm not but... The game is just too easy for today's standards. I really think some of these raids and instances need a serious increase in difficulty. MC is a joke, most of the tier sets are unbalanced, and a lot of seasoned players agree but fear the toxic Classic community to speak up on this issue.Hopera237 Nov 15
This section gets a bit more in-depth as a Classic WoW Best Spec For Leveling Up Tier List, where certain classes can a have a really good spec for levelling while the other talent specs are more useful in PVP. Just below this, you can find links to our complete levelling guides for each class, where you can view to find all the information you will need to level up fast. This includes easy to gather weapons, locations you can farm mobs and a complete talent spec build we recommend while going from 1-60 in classic wow.
Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
The vanilla WoW Horde leveling guide you see on this site was originally made back in 2006 by Joana (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul).  The guides have been tweaked many times over the years to make things "faster".  The leveling guides were made because of all the messages I got from people asking me how I was able to level up so quickly on new realms.  I was first to level 60 on 7 different realms (3 with Mancow and 4 with Joana), even winning Blizzard's "First to Level 50" contest they held back in 2006.
Along the way, we’ve taken a close look at items that provide the biggest power gains, many of which were introduced in 1.10 as part of a sweeping dungeon itemization pass. That patch was when Tier 0.5 gear was introduced, and Relics were added to the drop tables of many bosses. It also adjusted drop rates and drop locations of a lot of gear (to make room for the Relics). We’ve gone back and reconstructed many of the most heavily affected drop tables as they existed prior to the 1.10 patch, and we’re planning to update the drop tables alongside the Ahn’Qiraj War Effort. Prior to the Ahn’Qiraj unlock, most of the drop rates and locations will look as they did in the patches prior to 1.10, with exceptions—there are lots of little changes made in earlier patches that don’t have a big effect on player power, and in those cases, we’re planning to use the 1.12 drop rates and locations.

Nov 15 Molten Core in the 1st Week, UPDATE Nelson Mandela: “It always seems impossible until it's done.” www.exploitedgaming.com/charter The most hardcore guild in WoW is looking for a few good no-life nerds to join us on a historic adventure. Go to that site to see what raid positions we still need, on the front page! UPDATE: 11/14 We have filled all of our raid positions. Our guild is still *over recruiting* due to people dropping off, or not making the cutoff in time. If you really want to test the limits of endurance, and push yourself to be part of WoW history, I invite you to join us. Our guild will be hosting a free-roll Molten Core run before the first server reset. What does this mean? Assuming the server goes live on a Tuesday - we have 7 days access to Molten Core. So, on the 7th night, we will attempt to enter Molten Core. We will get as far as we can, and farm trash if we hit a roadblock. If the server goes live later in the week, a Friday for example, then we will have 10 or so days to try to progress in Molten Core in the first FULL week of available raiding. Requirements: Discord Level 55+ Healer Level 58+ DPS or tank Attuned Horde Basic consumables (obviously you won’t be expected to have everything you would months into the server, but potions, stat buff food, bandages) Basic gear (hit rating being the most important for DPS) Apply on the website to reserve a spot. www.exploitedgaming.com Note: This challenge is NOT for everyone. 18 hours a day on WoW, for a week straight. This is not healthy, nor is it easy. Proceed with caution, and remember your health is top priority.Bandulu433 Nov 15
For players who plan to play with others, we recommend these as the Best Duo Leveling Classes. These rankings take into account the synergy between classes and how fast they can level from 1-60 together. For example, having a healer to pair with the Warrior makes for a strong combo since you can now tank mobs more effectively, while the Priest DoTs (Damage Over Time) mobs.
The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter. 
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