If possible, avoid purchasing Gear from the Auction House - Ideally, you should be able to achieve level 60 without buying anything from the Auction House. This way you will save Gold, but possibly make leveling a bit harder for yourself. If you badly require an Item upgrade, and the suitable Item is available on the Auction House for a low enough price - buy it, but only if you think that the investment will pay for itself in one way or another (the main exceptions to the Auction House ban Rule are Weapons and Wands, as they make leveling much faster, and pay for themselves by allowing you to chain-kill more mobs without Eating and Drinking, which saves Gold and time).
Blizzard has published a preview of new WOW Gnome and Tauren Heritage Armor, which are coming in Rise of Azshara. Here you could see what the armor looks like and how to unlock each of them. See new Tauren & Gnome Heritage Armor It has been confirmed that two new Heritage Armor sets, one for gnomes and one for tauren, are coming in WOW Rise of Azshara content update. You could see...
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24 Nov 15
Upgrade your bags as quickly as possible - This tip is closely connected to the previous one. Upgrading your bags quickly will ensure that you spend more time grinding and less time managing your inventory, which will increase your leveling speed and allow you to make some more money in the process. Bags are expensive, so it is a good idea to look for a Tailor who will make you a set of new bags for Materials and a small fee (you will surely loot some Cloths, so this will not cost you too much). There are also some Quests that reward you with Bags:

Nov 15 Why was it "easy" for Nost, but hard for Bliz During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?Goró64 Nov 15
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Nov 15 Classic was great, BC was better. IMO, BC hit the sweet spot in terms of content and gaming for WoW. It basically kept the core gameplay of Classic, but streamlined it for a better experience. Questing wasn't much different (still needed groups for hard quests), dungeons were still challenging (no LFD, heroics could be very difficult), and the raids were plentiful and required less people (25 and 10) Classes were much more balanced, specs were vastly improved (druids and paladins could finally tank and DPS as good as they could heal) In PVP, arenas are one thing I don't know if they should have ever added TBH. Some people might complain about the introduction of flying mounts, but I think it fit the expansion well. Also, Shattrath City was a great city hub! I enjoyed spending time there. Overall, I think it was the best WoW has ever been.Rhamus13 Nov 15
If possible, avoid purchasing Gear from the Auction House - Ideally, you should be able to achieve level 60 without buying anything from the Auction House. This way you will save Gold, but possibly make leveling a bit harder for yourself. If you badly require an Item upgrade, and the suitable Item is available on the Auction House for a low enough price - buy it, but only if you think that the investment will pay for itself in one way or another (the main exceptions to the Auction House ban Rule are Weapons and Wands, as they make leveling much faster, and pay for themselves by allowing you to chain-kill more mobs without Eating and Drinking, which saves Gold and time).
WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:
As you level, you will buy new ranks of spells. If you splurge out on an item upgrade, you will not have enough gold readily available to upgrade to the latest ranks of spells: placing you behind. Moreover, you can buy gear upgrades from the Auction House (AH) or vendors. Furthermore, you may have large investments that need to be paid for professors. You will need to purchase reagents and items such as leather, bolts of cloth, alchemy supplies – unless you have a charitable friend or another high-level alt. 

Nov 15 Classic was great, BC was better. IMO, BC hit the sweet spot in terms of content and gaming for WoW. It basically kept the core gameplay of Classic, but streamlined it for a better experience. Questing wasn't much different (still needed groups for hard quests), dungeons were still challenging (no LFD, heroics could be very difficult), and the raids were plentiful and required less people (25 and 10) Classes were much more balanced, specs were vastly improved (druids and paladins could finally tank and DPS as good as they could heal) In PVP, arenas are one thing I don't know if they should have ever added TBH. Some people might complain about the introduction of flying mounts, but I think it fit the expansion well. Also, Shattrath City was a great city hub! I enjoyed spending time there. Overall, I think it was the best WoW has ever been.Rhamus13 Nov 15
WOW Battle for Nazjatar is a new World PvP event in patch 8.2 Rise of Azshara. Players will try to control five points in Nazjatar during the battle, and earn Nazjatar Battle Commendation for rewards like Essences and Inkscale Deepseeker mount. How to join in WOW Battle for Nazjatar? In special WOW Battle for Nazjatar World PvP event in WOW patch 8.2, each faction tries to control five points in Nazjatar during...
Nov 15 Managing your time and Classic So how are you guys thinking you're going to do it? I know when I played Vannila, I sunk so much time into it as I didn't have any responsibilites. Nowadays I work 24 on, 48 off (which is actually good, except for raid days) and have a wife. I figure a lot of you will be in the same boat. That may be a good thing as it can slow the pace a bit.Crupzz4	Nov 15 

Find a Mage-Friend - The other things that get very expensive over time are Food and Drinks. At levels 1-40 you will most likely spend more than 15 Gold on them in total, and that is 15% of a level 40 Mount! To save at least a portion of this money, you should ask Mages if they can Conjure Food and Drink for you in exchange for a Small tip or favor. Remember that Conjured items disappear if you are offline for longer than 15 minutes. 

Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
Nov 15 Which class are you planning on rolling? I'm still trying to decide between: Orc shaman: enhancement until 60 then resto for pvp Undead priest: shadow unless I decide to raid a bit Leaning towards these healers since I don't mind the role and 5 mans will be insanely easy to pickup. I've also been tossing around the idea of rogue/mage since that is what I played back on during vanilla/BC (had a blast ganking).Xano24 Nov 15
Nov 15 Question about the PVP system I am struggling to put the words to my question so let me just throw my 'plan' out there. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. Since horde are typically the pvp focused faction, I planned on rolling alliance on a pvp server with horde dominating the server in order to climb pvp ranks easier. My queue times would be instant and there would be less competition when trying to climb the ranks. The way I understand the honor system is that I am competing against others on my faction for a position on the ladder. Less competition would make it easier to climb. I know I will never get rank 14 and don't plan on it. I thought with my limited play time, if I was on a horde dominated pvp server I would cap around rank 6-7. Being on the alliance on the same realm I could get to 8-9 with the same /played. Is this true or do I have it wrong?Jdpp5 Nov 15
Nov 15 Why was it "easy" for Nost, but hard for Bliz During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?Goró64 Nov 15
Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version.
The vanilla WoW Horde leveling guide you see on this site was originally made back in 2006 by Joana (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul).  The guides have been tweaked many times over the years to make things "faster".  The leveling guides were made because of all the messages I got from people asking me how I was able to level up so quickly on new realms.  I was first to level 60 on 7 different realms (3 with Mancow and 4 with Joana), even winning Blizzard's "First to Level 50" contest they held back in 2006.
For WOW players who loved Vanilla WOW so much, the released date for WOW Classic has finally been confirmed and it will be launched on August 27, 2019! WOW classic gold & WOW gold classic are expected to have very high demand when the game is launched, WOW players are recommended to buy WOW classic gold or WOW gold classic from G2G.com and enjoy the cheapest price! For more info about the launch and testing schedule for WOW classic, kindly visit the official site here : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22990080/mark-your-calendars-wow-classic-launch-and-testing-schedule
Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
Some players choose to take a slightly alternative approach to their gold farming. This approach can take an extensive amount of time and dedication. Many people choose to train a ton of alts, solely for the purpose of making money and multi-tasking. In World of Warcraft Classic, professions are usually paired together. For example, if you’re training alchemy, you will need herbs to create consumables (e.g. flasks) that are used for raiding. An intelligent and observant player could seize this knowledge by creating one alchemy alt and one herbalism alt, swapping items as needed between each other. This fully mitigates the fees by the Auction House, which means your profit is maximised. Another complimentary combination you can use is skinning and tailoring, or cooking and fishing.
Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15
Nov 15 Little Test on Class Quest Rewards Hey guys, I did a little test on certain class rewards to check whether they are adequate or not for the level they are obtainable. Paladin - Verigan's Fist is a famous weapon, added probably during the Naxx patch and lot of paladins remember lasting it for long time. Obtainable level is like 22, with party of same level players. And the Mace is equivalent to a level 26 Blue Mace. This means it's not bad! Warrior - Brutal Hauberk is infamous warrior chest. It is obtainable at level 20(as I remember), but it requires running a level 28+ dungeon. And it's mediocre - it compares to a level 24 blue, which is stupid. Whirlwind Axe is a famous warrior weapon which requires a nanny. :D You get level 30 and then pay people money or beg them to help you. This is not even doable with normal party until 35ish. Whirlwind Axe is equivalent to a 35 level Blue Axe, which is decent but still seems to be forcing it. Unless you hire a nanny, being social will probably help you get it at around 35-36 with similar level players. Warlock - Enchanted Gold Bloodrobe is pretty famous. I am not sure when it is exactly doable but is comparable to a level 35ish Robe. I think the verdict is that Paladin's Hammer is by far the best and the reason for it is that it was added later, at the end of vanilla, when Blizzard had more brains. :DHolylr1 Nov 15
Nov 7, 2017 Welcome - Please Read! Welcome to the Classic Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft: Classic with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct: http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct Getting the Most Out of the Forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016792409 Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community.Ornyx1 Nov 7, 2017
I am currently working full time on my Vanilla WoW leveling guides.  Soon there will be a 1-60 speed leveling guide for Alliance, along with in-game guide versions available for my members area.  As of right now, there is no members area, but if you would like to show support for my efforts into this project, you can simply donate to me via Patreon if you like (you will get some cool rewards in return).  Or you can donate directly with PayPal if you like.  All donations are highly appreciated and they will only motivate me more to continue making the best vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web.
 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.
Nov 15 Why was it "easy" for Nost, but hard for Bliz During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?Goró64	Nov 15 

Invest - If you do not plan to rush to level 60 and want to take your time instead, this tip might come in very handy for you. The value of many Items will increase over time because more and more Gold will find its way to the market. To take advantage of this, you can stack up on various crafting materials with the intention of selling them on a later date. This will require a lot of patience and some Grinding if you want to make a good profit but is certainly worth your while if you are an economy-oriented Player.
Step-by-step class guides are on the way!  The 1-12 Mulgore Guide is the first guide to get all the individual class steps.  At the top of the guide, simply select which class you are playing and the page will dynamically update all the steps in the guide for that class (both text and images).  The rest of the guides will be slowly updated overtime to include all the class steps, but you can see how it's going to work with the 1-12 Mulgore.  I want to thank crazyK and his Placeholderguild for helping me out with the individual class content.  They are allowing me to get the 1-60 Alliance guide done while also getting all the class steps done at the same time, so everything can be ready for Classic launch (hopefully).
Step-by-step class guides are on the way!  The 1-12 Mulgore Guide is the first guide to get all the individual class steps.  At the top of the guide, simply select which class you are playing and the page will dynamically update all the steps in the guide for that class (both text and images).  The rest of the guides will be slowly updated overtime to include all the class steps, but you can see how it's going to work with the 1-12 Mulgore.  I want to thank crazyK and his Placeholderguild for helping me out with the individual class content.  They are allowing me to get the 1-60 Alliance guide done while also getting all the class steps done at the same time, so everything can be ready for Classic launch (hopefully). 

Tyr's Hand (marked RED on the map) - One of the Scarlet Crusade's Bastions, the Tyr's Hand is located in the south-eastern part of the Eastern Plaguelands. Scarlet Crusade members that can be encountered there have a very good Loot Table. The main focus here will be the Scarlet Archmage (which is an Elite, so farming them solo might not be possible for some Classes). the Archmage drops a lot of Runecloth, ~14 Silver worth of Pocket Money on average, and most importantly, the Formula: Enchant Weapon - Crusader which is very valuable to all Enchanters and achieves really high prices on the Auction House. Mobs encountered in Tyr's Hand can be Pickpocketed, so this is a quite good spot for experienced Rogues. Recommended Level - 60 (some Classes might be required to find a Farming Partner and go in as a duo).
Tyr's Hand (marked RED on the map) - One of the Scarlet Crusade's Bastions, the Tyr's Hand is located in the south-eastern part of the Eastern Plaguelands. Scarlet Crusade members that can be encountered there have a very good Loot Table. The main focus here will be the Scarlet Archmage (which is an Elite, so farming them solo might not be possible for some Classes). the Archmage drops a lot of Runecloth, ~14 Silver worth of Pocket Money on average, and most importantly, the Formula: Enchant Weapon - Crusader which is very valuable to all Enchanters and achieves really high prices on the Auction House. Mobs encountered in Tyr's Hand can be Pickpocketed, so this is a quite good spot for experienced Rogues. Recommended Level - 60 (some Classes might be required to find a Farming Partner and go in as a duo).

Nov 15 Guild Banks Pt. 14 So let's take our minds off subs and sharding and have a nice classic discussion about guild banks. Guild banks are still by far the least impactful on gameplay and most spirit of Vanilla community change one could request. Not only that the log keeps officers and gm's honest. Without logs they are free to skim off the top of donations and trivialize their epic mount purchase. Thoughts?Padrepwn91	Nov 15 

When it comes to levelling the Priest Class from 1-60 fast, XP grinding locations is only half the battle. You will need to make sure your weapon does enough DPS so that you can clear these mobs fast enough, it should also be noted that monster should be around your level to make sure to gain the 100% XP Reward. The Level your character should be before you start that specific location will be indicated to left in a Blue Color for Alliance [Lvl 35-39] and the Orange Color for Horde [Lvl 35-39]. The Mobs you are looking for in that specific area names are Bolded [Mob Name].

Unlike in the current World of Warcraft: BfA, Gold wasn't that easy to come by back in the vanilla version. Earning Gold for your first mount at level 40 was an accomplishment for the majority of players. When the game goes live and you decide to start your adventure, you will notice that every piece of equipment, crafting material and such is extremely expensive. That's always a thing when a new server or game is launched, as demand far exceeds the supply. You will also notice that quests give significantly less Gold compared to now, which makes it a necessity to play efficiently, and know goods spots for farming Gold and leveling.


WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:
Some players choose to take a slightly alternative approach to their gold farming. This approach can take an extensive amount of time and dedication. Many people choose to train a ton of alts, solely for the purpose of making money and multi-tasking. In World of Warcraft Classic, professions are usually paired together. For example, if you’re training alchemy, you will need herbs to create consumables (e.g. flasks) that are used for raiding. An intelligent and observant player could seize this knowledge by creating one alchemy alt and one herbalism alt, swapping items as needed between each other. This fully mitigates the fees by the Auction House, which means your profit is maximised. Another complimentary combination you can use is skinning and tailoring, or cooking and fishing. 

Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
Swamp Jaguars - Western part of the Swamp of Sorrows is inhabited by deadly feline species, the Swamp Jaguar. These big cats drop a lot of Vendor Trash Items (Long Soft Tail and Bristly Whisker), Large Fangs (used in Leatherworking, Blacksmithing, and Alchemy Recipes), Wicked Claws (used in Leatherworking and Blacksmithing Recipes), 12 Slot Bags, and most importantly can be Skinned for Heavy Leather and Thick Leather (Skinning is not necessary for this spot, because of Jaguar's already great loot table). This is one of the best spots for farming your Level 40 Mount Gold. Recommended level - 35+ (you might need to clear other Swamp creatures as well, just to be safe).
Nov 15 Question about the PVP system I am struggling to put the words to my question so let me just throw my 'plan' out there. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. Since horde are typically the pvp focused faction, I planned on rolling alliance on a pvp server with horde dominating the server in order to climb pvp ranks easier. My queue times would be instant and there would be less competition when trying to climb the ranks. The way I understand the honor system is that I am competing against others on my faction for a position on the ladder. Less competition would make it easier to climb. I know I will never get rank 14 and don't plan on it. I thought with my limited play time, if I was on a horde dominated pvp server I would cap around rank 6-7. Being on the alliance on the same realm I could get to 8-9 with the same /played. Is this true or do I have it wrong?Jdpp5 Nov 15
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